A great photo showing the Planform Alignment on all forward facing surfaces including the leading edge extensions and the intakes. Yes, this is a real stealth fighter….
Also the interesting dual weapon bays as per one famous Top Gun quote
Wolfman: “This gives me a hard on”
Hollywood: “Don’t tease me”
how can you call it a ‘real’ stealth fighter? This view clearly shows that T-50 is a (highly) improved variant of Su-27 (again!). Look at the two separated straight engine nacelles and the ‘rough’ underbelly surface. A lot of RCS promised
Cool, who is the source? I want to provide proper attribution (ELP gets it anyway) for my blog.
I’m curious if the front and aft bays can be configured as a single, Very long bay (a la VLB)? How long is each bay? Forinstance, could it accomodate a KH-15 size 4.8m? If they could squeeze a BrahMos II, in a long bay e.g.? Either scenario would eventually game-change all stand-off threats to naval operations – especially given a plausible (?) navalized PAK-FA variant down the road?
The thing is a beast either way, and if actually delivered in operational quantities whether as Quarterback or stand-alone, will indeed be highly asymmetrical… outside of pure swarm counter-air opposition and the F-22 (if in theater). I.E., with very few F-35As delivered through 2020′ish, forinstance (and no diplomatic resolutions (or strategic US domestic/financial restructuring), e.g., staying the course), the balance of power will significantly shift beyond the current rate and all current estimates known publicly, imho.
You can see it even better in the high res You Tube video that ELP has posted below.
I was deducing that it would logically be a potential future ‘DIRCM’ location, the bulb being a placeholder and mere mockup on the testbed? To think that only the US would somehow corner all DIRCM tech capability for the next 20 yrs, etc, etc, is rather… fill in the blanks.
Most likely, the irony will be that the first deployed F-35 with DIRCM will not be the first tactical jet deployed as such.
Here is one dangerous proposition: Will Israeli fly a Russian air superiority fighter in 2020 n’ beyond?
By 2015 the development of both T50 and F35 will at least be midway to completion. Israeli will be looking for a suitable replacement for its air superiority fighter F15C Eagle. Current exercise suggests that Typhoon can consistently beat Eagle in aerial dual even when outnumbered. So the choices really come down to three platforms: F35, Typhoon and T50. F35 is LO but by no mean an air superiority design; IDF might still acquire a squadron or two to complement existing A/G fleet. While F22 is strictly non-exportable, Typhoon and T50 will most likely be the best two air superiority fighters in the market. Now, Israeli aerospace industry has been upgrading and even customized (structure & avionics) Russian aircraft design from MiG21 to MiG29 and Su27 and is no stranger to the types. If, say, other Gulf states begin to express interest in Typhoon and T50 like Saudi did when the Eurofighter consortium had trouble financing Trench 3 Typhoon, and that F35 becomes too prohibitively expensive to field in number, would the IDF consider using a locally-customized T50 to serve as the air superiority replacement for F15 Eagle?
Realistic or not, it’s an intriguing notion, IMO. It highlights two [unfortunate] trends in American fighter aircraft design: trend toward A/G at the expense of A/A and a not-that-unfamiliar run-away cost spiral.
With US so proprietary about F35 access, it’s not inconceivable to even see Israeli participating in T50 development. IAI is very experienced in X-, Ka- and L band AESA proposed to be installed on T50′s nose, chins, leading edges and tail.
If PAK FA and F35 both sport partial stealth (LO) and the Russian jet costs 2/3 of F35′s ridiculous price tag but can climb, turn and accelerate much better than F35 ever can — what a shame that would cause to the west.
PAK FA is envisioned to carry “Very Great Range Missile” in internal weapon bay (front):
How about a mix between Su-35S, or… a further upgraded F-15SE (32k class power and TVC) and stealthy x-47b class UCAV? (a spiral developed, 21st century upgraded F-16XL type variant would have been the logical selection, if it had been developed) Much can change in 5 yrs too.
The bigger question is why does it need the F-35? Once the F-22 has done its work, 4th gens can bomb to their hearts content. And… the F-16 is good enough for ASA missions.
Good answer. Really can’t debate that.
Unfortunately that does not help the USN which is now dependent on the Super Hornet and the F-35C. As ELP has pointed out, if the T-50/PAK-FA is sold to nations outside of India, large parts of the world will become dangerous to our legacy fighters, and carrier power projection will be hampered. The Navy needs air supremacy fighters, if not a naval version of the F-22, then something else with similar capabilities. The next shoe to drop will be China revealing the J-XX, which will happen either later this year, or next year. Its reality check time for Sec. Gates and company…..
The problem is that aircraft like this operate best is a team with S-300/400, TBM’s and UAV’s. The T-50 makes life hard for the F-22, the SAM’s chew the 4th gens and our UAV’s.
While the F-35 is a soup sandwich, we need that stealth to get past the death tripod of this plan, newer SAMs and enemy UAV’s.
As a Patriot soldier I have a lot riding on the F-22 and F-35. If they do their job and bomb scud sites, they make my job easier. The 4th gen’s will not cut it, epically if the “Flaptor’s” friends are SA-20′s and UAV’s.
Worse, a smaller RCS makes my job that much harder.
I hope that weapons bay can’t hold a KH-31 (if it does…….*shiver*)
Now we just need to test it to see if the super bugs can get a shot in!
PAK.FA at very least becoming the Russian equivalent of the proposed F15SE (should we call it Silent Flanker?) and at most become the Russia’s true 5G with the maneuverability of the F22 combined with the payload flexibility of the JSF.
Now the “high-end” threat is as specific as it comes. It will take roughly 10 years (certainly much longer than Russians dare to imagine) for PAK.FA to properly mature and tested. It’s time for the American to redesign the Falcon, Eagle or the Lightning II to meet the projected threat.
Boeing’s F15 VP told Steve Trimble that the F15SE Silent Eagle for now won’t sport the canted tail.
Meanwhile, the Russian counterpart is completely redesigning its Flanker linage and designates it the PAK.FA.
Does American company really know how to design a complex weapon system on budget and on time?
Most of the famous legacy systems – eg F15, F16, F18 – were designed more than 3 decades ago where good senses/intuition was a part of the successful equation. Most of those legendary designers have either died or retired by now. The design and RDT&E culture today is very different from it was 30 years ago (not to mention the merges, restructuring and buyouts).
With the political/patriotic pressure to “get things done right” gone, it is questionable whether the US defense industry still has what it takes to manage a project on time and on budget.
We can just make a brief count just how many defense projects actually start and end on budget and on time. Yet, contractors like the LM was actually scheduled to receive the “$614 million performance bonus” (had Gates not blocked it). It’s disturbing – just saying.
Unless there’s going to be a new round of arm race (please, don’t), the global fighter jet market seems near saturated in near future. Asia Pacific will remain the center of gravity over the next five years. Even so, the market looks bleak for PAK.FA’s immediate predecessor, the Sukhoi Su35. At the moment (that is, before early F15 and Su27 reach time of retirement around 2020) the two most likely operator of sizable PAK.FA remains Russia and India. Rest assured that PAK.FA won’t become RPG/IED/AK47 anytime soon. Using it as a justification for around round of extremely expensive fighter jet competition/goose chase would not only be unwise but end up collapsing the Western economy (sounds like the end of Cold War round II to me). Realistically assess the threat before committing your budget to any sort of such F35/F22-followup/FAXX pursuit, please.
A great photo showing the Planform Alignment on all forward facing surfaces including the leading edge extensions and the intakes. Yes, this is a real stealth fighter….
Also the interesting dual weapon bays as per one famous Top Gun quote
Wolfman: “This gives me a hard on”
Hollywood: “Don’t tease me”
how can you call it a ‘real’ stealth fighter? This view clearly shows that T-50 is a (highly) improved variant of Su-27 (again!). Look at the two separated straight engine nacelles and the ‘rough’ underbelly surface. A lot of RCS promised
Cool, who is the source? I want to provide proper attribution (ELP gets it anyway) for my blog.
I’m curious if the front and aft bays can be configured as a single, Very long bay (a la VLB)? How long is each bay? Forinstance, could it accomodate a KH-15 size 4.8m? If they could squeeze a BrahMos II, in a long bay e.g.? Either scenario would eventually game-change all stand-off threats to naval operations – especially given a plausible (?) navalized PAK-FA variant down the road?
The thing is a beast either way, and if actually delivered in operational quantities whether as Quarterback or stand-alone, will indeed be highly asymmetrical… outside of pure swarm counter-air opposition and the F-22 (if in theater). I.E., with very few F-35As delivered through 2020′ish, forinstance (and no diplomatic resolutions (or strategic US domestic/financial restructuring), e.g., staying the course), the balance of power will significantly shift beyond the current rate and all current estimates known publicly, imho.
Matthew:
I found the picture here: http://warfare.ru/?linkid=2280&catid=255
Its also posted in the F-16.net forums under PAK-FA.
In this photo, check out the spherical device behind cockpit, it almost looks like an IRST, anyone have any idea what it is?
http://warfare.ru/?lang=&linkid=2280&catid=255&image=2025
You can see it even better in the high res You Tube video that ELP has posted below.
I was deducing that it would logically be a potential future ‘DIRCM’ location, the bulb being a placeholder and mere mockup on the testbed? To think that only the US would somehow corner all DIRCM tech capability for the next 20 yrs, etc, etc, is rather… fill in the blanks.
Most likely, the irony will be that the first deployed F-35 with DIRCM will not be the first tactical jet deployed as such.
Here is one dangerous proposition: Will Israeli fly a Russian air superiority fighter in 2020 n’ beyond?
By 2015 the development of both T50 and F35 will at least be midway to completion. Israeli will be looking for a suitable replacement for its air superiority fighter F15C Eagle. Current exercise suggests that Typhoon can consistently beat Eagle in aerial dual even when outnumbered. So the choices really come down to three platforms: F35, Typhoon and T50. F35 is LO but by no mean an air superiority design; IDF might still acquire a squadron or two to complement existing A/G fleet. While F22 is strictly non-exportable, Typhoon and T50 will most likely be the best two air superiority fighters in the market. Now, Israeli aerospace industry has been upgrading and even customized (structure & avionics) Russian aircraft design from MiG21 to MiG29 and Su27 and is no stranger to the types. If, say, other Gulf states begin to express interest in Typhoon and T50 like Saudi did when the Eurofighter consortium had trouble financing Trench 3 Typhoon, and that F35 becomes too prohibitively expensive to field in number, would the IDF consider using a locally-customized T50 to serve as the air superiority replacement for F15 Eagle?
Realistic or not, it’s an intriguing notion, IMO. It highlights two [unfortunate] trends in American fighter aircraft design: trend toward A/G at the expense of A/A and a not-that-unfamiliar run-away cost spiral.
With US so proprietary about F35 access, it’s not inconceivable to even see Israeli participating in T50 development. IAI is very experienced in X-, Ka- and L band AESA proposed to be installed on T50′s nose, chins, leading edges and tail.
If PAK FA and F35 both sport partial stealth (LO) and the Russian jet costs 2/3 of F35′s ridiculous price tag but can climb, turn and accelerate much better than F35 ever can — what a shame that would cause to the west.
PAK FA is envisioned to carry “Very Great Range Missile” in internal weapon bay (front):
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mDvQ8xYRdSI/SuFwhRXNaGI/AAAAAAAAAj4/yVu7xyzjs2I/s1600-h/pak-fa+28.08.2009.jpg
aiming to have a maximum range of 350km.
How about a mix between Su-35S, or… a further upgraded F-15SE (32k class power and TVC) and stealthy x-47b class UCAV? (a spiral developed, 21st century upgraded F-16XL type variant would have been the logical selection, if it had been developed) Much can change in 5 yrs too.
Tell me again why the USAF needs F-16s and F-15s?
Pingback: Sukhoi’s little plane: Chewing up the old teen fighters | Chockblock’s blog
The bigger question is why does it need the F-35? Once the F-22 has done its work, 4th gens can bomb to their hearts content. And… the F-16 is good enough for ASA missions.
Good answer. Really can’t debate that.
Unfortunately that does not help the USN which is now dependent on the Super Hornet and the F-35C. As ELP has pointed out, if the T-50/PAK-FA is sold to nations outside of India, large parts of the world will become dangerous to our legacy fighters, and carrier power projection will be hampered. The Navy needs air supremacy fighters, if not a naval version of the F-22, then something else with similar capabilities. The next shoe to drop will be China revealing the J-XX, which will happen either later this year, or next year. Its reality check time for Sec. Gates and company…..
The problem is that aircraft like this operate best is a team with S-300/400, TBM’s and UAV’s. The T-50 makes life hard for the F-22, the SAM’s chew the 4th gens and our UAV’s.
While the F-35 is a soup sandwich, we need that stealth to get past the death tripod of this plan, newer SAMs and enemy UAV’s.
As a Patriot soldier I have a lot riding on the F-22 and F-35. If they do their job and bomb scud sites, they make my job easier. The 4th gen’s will not cut it, epically if the “Flaptor’s” friends are SA-20′s and UAV’s.
Worse, a smaller RCS makes my job that much harder.
I hope that weapons bay can’t hold a KH-31 (if it does…….*shiver*)
Now we just need to test it to see if the super bugs can get a shot in!
PAK.FA at very least becoming the Russian equivalent of the proposed F15SE (should we call it Silent Flanker?) and at most become the Russia’s true 5G with the maneuverability of the F22 combined with the payload flexibility of the JSF.
Now the “high-end” threat is as specific as it comes. It will take roughly 10 years (certainly much longer than Russians dare to imagine) for PAK.FA to properly mature and tested. It’s time for the American to redesign the Falcon, Eagle or the Lightning II to meet the projected threat.
Boeing’s F15 VP told Steve Trimble that the F15SE Silent Eagle for now won’t sport the canted tail.
Meanwhile, the Russian counterpart is completely redesigning its Flanker linage and designates it the PAK.FA.
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2010/02/boeing-ditches-v-tail-for-firs.html
Does American company really know how to design a complex weapon system on budget and on time?
Most of the famous legacy systems – eg F15, F16, F18 – were designed more than 3 decades ago where good senses/intuition was a part of the successful equation. Most of those legendary designers have either died or retired by now. The design and RDT&E culture today is very different from it was 30 years ago (not to mention the merges, restructuring and buyouts).
With the political/patriotic pressure to “get things done right” gone, it is questionable whether the US defense industry still has what it takes to manage a project on time and on budget.
We can just make a brief count just how many defense projects actually start and end on budget and on time. Yet, contractors like the LM was actually scheduled to receive the “$614 million performance bonus” (had Gates not blocked it). It’s disturbing – just saying.
Unless there’s going to be a new round of arm race (please, don’t), the global fighter jet market seems near saturated in near future. Asia Pacific will remain the center of gravity over the next five years. Even so, the market looks bleak for PAK.FA’s immediate predecessor, the Sukhoi Su35. At the moment (that is, before early F15 and Su27 reach time of retirement around 2020) the two most likely operator of sizable PAK.FA remains Russia and India. Rest assured that PAK.FA won’t become RPG/IED/AK47 anytime soon. Using it as a justification for around round of extremely expensive fighter jet competition/goose chase would not only be unwise but end up collapsing the Western economy (sounds like the end of Cold War round II to me). Realistically assess the threat before committing your budget to any sort of such F35/F22-followup/FAXX pursuit, please.
http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,210135,00.html