Some great artwork from Patrick Corrigan of the Toronto Star. Although I think the Edsel had a higher percentage of test points done when it was sold to customers.
Some great artwork from Patrick Corrigan of the Toronto Star. Although I think the Edsel had a higher percentage of test points done when it was sold to customers.
Careful who you idolize and sleep with Eric . . . The Toronto Star is Canada’s leading anti military, actually military hating daily rag. It is staffed with socialists and Peace at Any Price types who will do anything to smear our Forces and get their budget transferred in useless international peace projects and other stupid but “progressive” actions.
If you hang with the dogs . . .
Good point as the F-35 is a dog.
Exactly. Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut.
Been awhile since we haven’t heard from Fred….:)
Yea, take that you socialist bastards! Er.. sorry, just getting into the Fred mode.
The fat, slow and overweight F-35 is a dog in the fighter world, and the Edsel is a perfect comparison. Really, its nice to see some in Canada actually recognizing the raging stupidity in buying this flying loser. Can Canada actually shake the brain numbing disinformation and propaganda being cranked out by Lockmart and the Gates DoD?
Stay tuned folks, more to come…..
loser???
what about the rafale,the jet that nobody wants……how many years without one single buyer…..15,17 years and counting,thats historic. true or false?
where is the same level or even close to the same level of critasism about the rafale on this site.
it makes one believe theirs some biasness going on .
you guys are going to fill like some jackasses when the f-35 sales 5000 or 6000 or more aircraft……..dont forget united states can cycle through production on the f-35 for a second time.
the only thing im curious about,what is the REAL REASON OF THE LEVEL OF CRITASISM ON THE F-35,is it the concern on the american tax payer…..NOT.
no the reason behind the reason, or is it ,the f-35 will own half the market and send the e.u back to the drawing boards….again.
Actually Eric I thought you had already given out the comment of the year award, guess we have a new winner?
moryphius,
sometimes it pays to do a little research before assuming everybody elses opinion is invalid or biased.
On the Rafale,
You have missed several key points, firstly the French actually designed an aircraft that suits their defens(c)e needs, NOT the marketing departments or someone elses. Even if they never sell a single jet outside of France it will still be a success because they got what they wanted, NOT what someone else wanted them to have (same goes for the Swede’s and their export successful Gripen).
Second, the Rafale is actually a very good aircraft far better than some people think and will continue to be improved upon. You should also note that they managed to develop both a land based as well as carrier borne version with both in service, something the UK should seriously consider if they do give the F-35 the chop.
Thirdly, lack of sales of the Rafale has far more to do with politics than performance, historical case in point is the RAAF’s Air 6000 project. Air 6000 was supposed to see a traditional competitive evaluation done between various international fighter aircraft offerings of which the French were quite keen to participate by offering Rafale. They invested considerable money early on in promoting the aircraft to the RAAfFand Australian Govt, however without any warning the Govt suddenly and mysteriously scrapped the entire competitive evaluation and told Dassault and others “sorry we made a descision, you wont get a look in, we are buying the F-35″. Frankly I cant even see how that descision was legal, there are supposed to be rules preventing this kind of bias from happening. Understandably the French and others were stunned and insulted by this. The whole affair surrounding the choosing of the F-35 is publically at least, very mysterious and very very fishy.
As for people being biased, cannot the same be said about your position on the Rafale? Why do you seem to consider that no export sales is a measure of somethings success? Isnt it supposed to be about actual performance? Its a pretty upside down world you live in if you think its about numbers sold and dollars earned, then again who can blame you for thinking like that when the whole JSF/F-35 program is being run by that thinking.
No I dont think anyone here is going to feel like a jackass because the chance of 5000-6000 JSF’s being built is even this early in the program at best remote. Simply no one can afford it. It was supposed to be a cheap affordable fighter like the F-16, but it is now the most expensive millitary program in history, it will never own half the world market because it costs to much. And even if it does send the Europeans, be they French, Swedish, or the Eurofighter consortium members back to the drawing boards it wont be for the reasons you think, but rather because there may suddenly be a rather big hole in the fighter acquisition plans of both European and traditionally US fighter buyers that needs urgently filling, and THAT can only be ulitmately a good thing for competion.
All good points Goldeel. Don’t forget that if you just look at numbers, the best selling French jet would be Mirage III,somewhere around a 1000, one of my all time favorites.
Pretty much in decreasing order F1,Mirage 2000 and finally Rafale with still no export orders.
These are all considering very good fighters in their day but for a lot of reasons you touched on, it has been harder for the French to sell the fighters.
Congratulations: You win the comment of the year award.
Ok enough is enough,
moryphius, start presenting some actual counterpoints (read: arguments and facts!) to our percieved anti F-35 bias or you are in serious danger of becoming a troll.
There is nothing lopsided about raising serious concerns about the budget, performance, delivery time and relevance of such a huge program, especially when they are being widely debated by not just governments but experts as well.
Yeah your right there really is a little F-35 living in all of us and a lot more to come, it’s called our hard earned tax dollars!
You seem pretty derisive of the French and yet you conveniently avoided talking about the very relavant point I made that they actually built an aircraft for THEIR needs not somebody else’s, and while no cheaper than alternatives they have still managed to afford it. Again it’s not about sales its about RELEVANT cost vs performance to ones needs, the F-35 simply fails everybody because it doesnt bring relavant performance at relavant cost in a relavant time frame, how in hell is stating the screamingly obvious biased?.Tell us how this is a lopsided view, and above all please explain why you think the F-35 is so much better?
I fear however all Im ever going to get from you is, “who is walking on my bridge?”…
wow …..this award is heavier then i thought.
i would first like too thank eric palmer on regonizing shear brilliance
….but more importantly,i want too thank the critics of the f-35,thats right the critics,
without you’re lopsided view points and one sided opionions,this award would not of been possible.
………..and remember theirs a little f-35 living in all of us……..thank you.
(as a standing o ensues and the house erupts)…….as a little angry naked french guy runs across the stage shouting “BUY RAFALE …..FREE SHOESHINES TOO THE FIRST 3 CUSTOMERS AND REMEMBER WE WANT TOO BE YOU’RE FRIEND TOO”
firstly the French actually designed an aircraft that suits their defens(c)e needs, NOT the marketing departments or someone elses. Even if they never sell a single jet outside of France it will still be a success because they got what they wanted, NOT what someone else wanted them to have
goldeel,
i hope most of all ,the senior project managers at dassault did not approach the conception of the rafale with little or no regard too partners or foreign market sales (as you suggest ),that would be unforgivable to their employee’s as well as short changing the future of the rafale it self.(revenues)
and also hope dassault tried every avenue possible to accomodate potential partners and future markets FROM CONCEPTION.
france should know this most of all with a two hundred and something aircraft domestic market.
so foreign partners and customers FROM CONCEPTION IS IMPERATIVE.
POLITICS.?…….all countries play politics,and if they have more leverage they will use it,you would have to be a fool not to believe that.
you also comment about export sales vs performance.
their is a very real concern from some potential customers for the rafale,because of no sales (lack of revenues),how that can effect future upgrades and even if they will be in existence in a couple decades.(not a good feeling for a customer from the onset).
the rafale m is going for 90.5 million u.s dollars(fly away cost according to wikipedia)and the f-35 just sold to israel for 96 million u.s dollars(fly away cost).
so i believe the rafale long term future hinges on the brazil and or india competition .