Here are some more images. I have taken 2 of them and cropped them to remove anything that doesn’t contribute and enhanced them slightly.
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Better images of Chinese J-20 fighter part 2 #military
Still thinking about dark paint job, I am starting to wonder if Chinese navy had some say in the requirements. Landing gear seems quite tall and beefing, nice ground clearance, forward canards, I guess we will have to wait a few more years to see if it appears on a Chinese aircraft carrier.
I know I shouldn’t give any more ideas to conspiracy theorist out there but I have been wondering if we are not seeing an early LRIP or pre-production bird and NOT the first prototype. Could China develop a fighter in total secrecy and decide to show it AFTER most trials are finished?
Well, I don’t think this is the prototype. If anything I believe that China already have more than a few of these in full operational status. You got to look at the timing of this so-called “Photo leak”! Right when the U.S decides to send their 3rd carrier to China’s door step, coincidence or not? I don’t know. Well pushing Korea into the brink of war finally got a raise of China otherwise they wouldn’t have leak these pictures to the public. Its saying to the world look what we’ve got! Don’t mess with China n stay the hell out of its waters.
my random thoughts:
1. It’s big. the internal volume must be amazing.
2. It’s a cross breed between F-35 (front fuselage and stealth rules) and mig 1.44 (size, engines and rear arrangement). This is what happen when mig design bureau is doing F-35 using chinese money.
3. What is its wing shape? I wouldn’t be surprised if it looks exactly like F-35 side trimming.
4. What engine? It doesn’t look like it has TVC yet. Probably the reason they need that canard, until they get the engine + TVC working.
5. The DVI bump is not symmetric! It must be the first plane in the world having this feature. What does it mean? have they figure out DVI for high mach number? (The amount of computer simulation figuring out this must be huge)
6. May what big nose it has. It’s HUGE! imagine the size of radar they can fit in it.
so. This is what F-35 built for pacific arena looks like. A stealthy long range interceptor, maybe with flanker style TVC.
Copypasted comment from AvWeek:
>There are two prototypes, the other for static test.
>It has a DSI combined with variable Caret inlet, nothing seen on other planes. Basically it has the most complicated aerodynamic features, owing probably in part to a less powerful engine compared to F22.
Like to see a comparison of the F-22, nose on, to get a better understanding of the potential inlet mass flows and bay volumes.
Best place for a canard is on someone else’ jet, just way too many multipath lines there and you can never bury the actuators well enough without effecting front end profile drag which looks like it’s going to enormous anyway.
If it’s for real, that wing is too far back and/or too small to get rid of the duck without changes to supercruise stability and I don’t see an ability to change the configuration at this point without massive redesign.
Obviously a better planview is required to start adding up the angles for Mach point cruise and RCS sensitive return aspects. Would also help me guestimate WS-10 or AL31FM-2 type engine lengths and spanwise inlet displacement to make a better guess at serpentines and overall fuselage/wing chord based volumes. DSIs on inlets that big will cause more problems than they solve.
Still don’t see the obsession with all moving verticals. Yes, you trade (dielectric = largely invisible) total area for billboarding at some aspects (hard to see beyond the stabs and wing at operational altitude) but you gain back surface discontinuities that run longitudinally and create a lot of fuzz with 1-2 spike lines that are basically impossible to cover with gap seals.
Huge HUD means the canopy has to be electronically RF sealed and the benefits of an HMDS are limited by that combiner frame. I wonder if it’s intended to be raster capable for nightwork.
That landing gear is primitive. Awful lot of overhang in the back, not suitable at all for Carrier work. And do I see speed brakes ala MiG-31?
In terms of size, it looks more like what I expected the ATFs to turn out as, which tells you an awful lot about either Chinese SFCs or ‘what 10%’ they cut from the F-22 performance specs to stay in the affordability vs. range. Which makes sense if they truly intend to contest most of the SCS and maybe try to dominate India. Makes for a big, heavy, unwieldy, (MiG-31) bird on the export market though.
Paint is simply a universal primer, more akin to what they used on the S-47 Berkut than anything. Covers the skin composition and fastener use, gives you uniform thermal response and possibly visual camouflage if they truly go to 60K feet as ‘hear be Raptor country’.
Wing LE layout looks almost identical to the F-22 with a bit of anhedral and thick roots combined with outboard conical cambering/twist as washout. Be interesting to see what the downstream effects of those canards are on any LE devices.
Engineering wise, it’s an interesting jet. I think the canards doom it to be an evolutionary dead end in terms of overall development as a LO design. It’s beatable, as is, with the F-22 and certain ‘undisclosed’ design elements which I think the Chinese will have to learn the hard way.
If they can bring the system packaging efforts together, we may have to up the ante with a bigger motor’d missile, an IRST and external carriage (encapsulate) options.
Ultimately, we wasted too much time and took too long to inventory the ATF and technology changes in the way we think as much as execute aero engineering changed (finite element studies and big honkin’ number crunchers make LO and high-Mach CFD too accessible).
The way forwards is still higher, faster, farther. I choose the X-37 with HTV-2 skin technology for the cheap win. TAV skip bombing makes tactical air defense moot.
Of course, this applies to U.S. as well. Because by the middle or latter half of this century, CONUS will become a conventional bombing target.
This bus is as beefy as Raptor but way longer. I think its weapons bays might not be bigger than that of F-22 but its range (Raptor’s biggest problem) might be significantly better. I think they made it that long exactly to increase fuel volume. In other words – not much thought was put into its design – they just chose the most popular stealth path. I prefer flat birds YF-23 and T-50.
MEMS Investor Journal: How are RF MEMS phase shifters used today and what are the various markets in which they find application?
Koen: RF MEMS phase shifters will find application in airborne and space-borne PESA radar sensors, which require low prime power consumption but do not require long-range search and track capability. The low-altitude unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) radar sensor market, for example, offers potential for RF MEMS phase shifters.
In general, the choice between an active electronically scanned array (AESA) and a PESA is determined by the range requirement. An AESA has distributed power amplification because every antenna is connected to a T/R module. An AESA therefore has a higher EIRP x Gr/T product (dynamic range) and better search and track capabilities than a PESA. A PESA has centralized power amplification, but offers cost, prime power consumption, size and weight savings, as shown in Fig. 3.
Some airborne platforms, such as fighter jets, have a dual need. For example they have a high-performance nose-cone AESA radar sensor to search and track agile targets, and a low-power pod-mounted PESA radar sensor underneath to measure the height, to follow (avoid) terrain, or to map the ground during a low fly over. The use depends on the range of the envisioned target.
http://www.memsinvestorjournal.com/2009/04/rf-mems-phase-shifters-.html
The length if the fuselage and the aggressive wing with the right engines will allow economical supercruising at altitude. The long nose chines were taken straight from the Raptor play book, and the huge nose will most certainly house a large AESA radar (likely developed from Israeli technology). I don’t believe the canards will be a huge problem from an RCS perspective until serious dog fighting comes into play. In fact they may lock the canards into place while in intercept mode allowing full movement only when needed. Looking at the plane from above, its obvious that serious planform alignment work has occurred including the canards (as I speculated before).
The size of the J-20 indicates long range/large internal fuel capacity were critical design elements, perfect for keeping US carriers and their air wings at bay from high altitude (like a Raptor). The intakes are simply HUGE implying new and very powerful engines will ultimately live in this plane, could this be the rumored WS-15 supercruising indigenous advanced fighter engine? The large DSI intakes will save weight and complexity, and add stealth to the design.
Most of the advanced avionics in development and flying in the J-10B and the J-11B/BS will end up in this fighter including AESA, EOTS/IRST, Optical MAWS, and integrated EW/ECM systems as in the J-10B.
As ELP mentioned the Chinese now have some outstanding WVR/BVR missiles developed from Israeli and Russian technology. I would also guess that this plane with its size will be able to carry anti-ship cruise missiles internally as part of the plan to deny USN carriers safety anywhere near Chinese waters.
Operating at high altitude, only the Raptor, PAK-FA, and maybe the Eurofighter Typhoon will be able to successfully engage this plane.
I question (as Nico) how long this plane has been really be in development? Could this be closer to deployment then most are guessing? This gradual leaking of photos and building to a “first flight” looks a little too staged to me!
In summary:
1. Gates is a moron
2. 187 Raptors will not be enough
3. The JSF is doomed along with most of the other 4th gen fighters flying today
4. The Chinese along with the Russians/India don’t seem to be much impressed with the “last manned fighter bullshit”.
5. US carriers and their air wings will be relegated to target practice status unless the USN gets serious about air supremacy again.
Happy New Year!
Love,
the PLAAF
ok. a complete model image. I guess this is a F-35 clone using TVC & canard, 3 points control.
It makes sense now, after seeing the wing. I guess we just have to see if TVC actually work in F-35 body. They should just clone that SU-37 instead. It’ll be ultra agile instead of copying F-35.
I wonder if J-20 will enter service earlier than F-35. now that would be hilarious.
Maybe LM can outsource the entire F-35 program already to cut the final price by 50%.
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?s=f4b2e8459f043013cf38175d91910caa&t=105427&page=21
We’re going to see a lot of crazy comments coming out of official circles as this fighter starts to fly. Looking at this plane as the images come out has confirmed that this a unique aircraft and not a clone of anything.
Speaking of the F-35, anyone want a bet that the J-20 will be flying with the quite a bit of “borrowed” technology? Remember those terabytes of data that were taken from the JSF Program 2 years ago by Chinese Hackers?
Hopefully they only took the good stuff from the FUBAR King of all fighter programs.
I see a lot of “Y” in that shape. Very low degree of fine tuning yet. Nozzles might be placeholders for later 2D ones.
Indeed a very large plane. I’d estimate it at around 24x15m, with 20 metric tonnes emtpy. (Yes, I know – me leaning far out of the window
The most interesting part here is not even technical. It is doctrinal and strategic. That plane – should it be the real thing – tells a tale of offensive expansionism. Range range range, like a modern-day Zero. But heavy, a “destroyer” in the terminology of the old German Luftwaffe.
TO RSF:
“STAGED” that was the exact word I was looking for! Yeah, it is looking more and more like the real deal, it just seems really strange. It just doesn’t seem to me like something the Chinese govt would let pictures of their most secret and advanced fighter “leak” like this and have “first” flight in front of everybody. One, too much loss of face if something goes wrong and from the country that kicked out Google and Facebook and serious controls on media/internet, yeah sure, just leak everything half ass on the internet, yeah,that seems like something the Chinese govt. would allow. Timing sure seems interesting too.
I don’t think it’s operational, I do lean more on the YJ-XX like Distiller mentions but I don’t believe this is real “first” flight or even that it’s the first prototype. I wouldn’t have a problem believing a couple of them are flying at hidden away secret location.
It would seem logical to migrate as much tech from J10B to JXX, it reduces cost and it would make JXX operational a lot faster.
As Distiller mentions, what the Chinese requirements, strategy and outlook to operations with this “fighter” is the real interest here since with have so little technical data. I “lean” towards a modern “F111″ or FB22 would be closer to what the Chinese were looking for.IMHO
As JC mentions, sure more in jest but it would be “hilarious” if J20 makes it to IOC before F35.
this thing, if half as good as it looks, could probably
obliterate half of the japanese airforce with a handful
of planes..what a turnaround in the region….
To tester:
ya definitely, considering that half of the Japanese airforce are F4 Phantoms…
On that note, there was a huge spike of intercepts of Chinese military aircraft by the Japanese over the East China Sea on the international meridian line last year. Now fast forward several years and imagine J-20′s routinely conducting these activity’s from the Chinese side and we start to get an idea of why Japan needs Raptors, and not the runaway from the fat farm (F-35).
http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201012270245.html